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Bill Carbone
November 21, 2008
Wow, heavy. I've interviewed people on both sides of this (Andre and Dweezil) and have got to say that it's ugly and it ain't going to change. Andre has had personal run ins with Dweezil and (imho) posted some irresponsibly angry letters around the web which have made him Zappa Estate Enemy #1.

Still though, his note about about FZ (am I allowed to use those initials here?) borrowing from everyone is well taken. Certain parties, like Captain Beefheart, say that he did a lot more borrowing than he ever admitted.

The whole thing really shows what a complicated character Frank was. He was so into protecting his intellectual property as a brand, but so against brands and commercialism in general. Complicated indeed.

 

Mike M.
November 21, 2008
It sounds like a shit show, that’s for sure. Bill, I’m interested in seeing the other side of this that explains why it’s so problematic for Project/Object or any Zappa cover band to perform his music.

I brought this up in my interview with Phil Lesh, but the conversation went in a different direction. I was curious to hear his take on people making a living playing his music. Apparently, he and the rest of GD, doesn’t mind. The legacy and continued longevity of a musician’s work throughout history has a lot to do with it being carried on and being passed down/reinterpreted through live performance. I remember a friend mine’s primary reason for supporting Dead cover bands was that he felt the music had that amount of importance. He drew the correlation between symphonies playing Beethoven’s music over a hundred years after his death. Same should be true with the Dead and Zappa - people should be listening to them forever. I always thought that was an interesting way of looking at it.

I think FZ tributes, such as Project/Object, adds a significant amount to the importance of this music. I’m interested in hearing the other side of this to examine its complicated nature. But my initial impression is that this is more of shit flinging show.

 

Grizz
November 21, 2008
God, can Gail be more of a CUNT?

 

Bill Carbone
November 21, 2008
Well, what Dweezil said amounted to roughly (this is a paraphrase, I've got the original transcript at home and will have to dig it up) "They can't be trusted to do Frank's music correctly." He said something to me along the lines of "They do a little of song x but then take out a hard section and ZPZ doesn't do that." One thing I remember Dweezil saying, and he felt it passionately and wholeheartedly, was "who are we to mess with Frank's charts?"

I think it's interesting because Dweezil is essentially making an argument that messing with a FZ chart is akin to a conductor fiddling with a Beethoven score; that these are total artifacts. I know FZ felt that way on one level, but he messed with his charts before EVERY tour - they never went out and played a song just like it was last year, and sometimes the adjustments were huge. So, in effect Dweezil is arguing that the only person with the right do change anything was Frank, and he's dead, so now it has to be played just like it was in year X, and only he and ZPZ can do it.

I love both groups. ZPZ is unbelievably tight and pulls things off that I can only dream of playing. Still though, the thing I miss in their shows is the spontaneity. Zappa shows were a freaking circus. For me part of what made the great Zappa bands so unbelievable was the way they played the hardest thing you've ever heard and made fart jokes at the same time as if to say "Yeah, this shit is so unreal that we have to have a sense of humor about it." The sense of humor on the ZPZ stage is forced, as if to replicate the exact FZ sense.

On the other hand P/O isn't quite as tight but the shows are LIVE. They play so well, and when Ike AND Ed Mann are in the band how can one really question authority? Those guys were there, they were cracking the jokes AND playing the runs of 32note quintuplets in 17/8.

But in the end, why not just let it all go down? GZ's quest is so much more like Tipper Gore's that Frank hated so much. I just don't understand how she thinks she's losing money over it. Zappa fans (myself included) are total collector nut jobs and there's no way we're not going to buy every release and go see every show by both groups.

While I'm in no position to say so, I can't help it: I've got to think FZ is twitching in his grave over this one.

 

LMB
November 21, 2008
So interesting, Bill. Thanks for sharing that.

 

G-Zap
November 21, 2008
Fight the power!!!!! I'm starting a Zappa cover band tonight. We're only playing the G chords from every song. Cause that's all we know how to play. But we will have the fart jokes. So go ahead, Gail. Do your worst!!!!!!

 

Adam
November 22, 2008
Sucks this got so ugly. Gail is going too far and beyond for something stupid, but I also have heard about a ZPZ show where Andre had to be physically removed from the soundbooth because he was intentionally trying to cause a scene. Both sides have moved beyond logic. Also heard the Zappa estate contacted Phish in the mid-90's about them playing Peaches in Regalia.

 

Agent Moosehead
November 24, 2008
Typical.

This is like Yoko telling Billy Preston that he's not allowed to play "Get Back" anymore - and that only SHE and Sean Lennon are allowed to when moving forward.

 

Anderstine
November 26, 2008
So sad, so very sad. If this has to do with cash, even worse. As we all know Frank would be proud to see and hear his material "nicely displayed" for one and all.
PS I've found it most unusual that Dweezil does not allow any 'bands' to be myspace friends at the Zappa Plays Zappa site ? Is he unaware that musicians made up a larger than average group of fans than other artists ?
F--- Me Runnin'
Stine

 

Noodles
November 30, 2008
FRANK IS DEAD. Get over it and move on! Gail is like some creepy "Hand of Frank" from the grave. Are Beethoven or Bo Diddley spinning in their graves because someone, somewhere isn't playing their music as they would have liked? Shit, poor Elvis will never rest in peace, then. Get a grip. What happens when the music goes into the public domain in the future? OMG, no control! Heaven forbid the School of Rock kids try to learn and play Frank's music. I guess they will learn that not all music is for the masses - well, maybe for a price.

 

KFGaetano
January 7, 2009
What's the ugliest part of your body?
What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose
Some say your toes
But I think it's your mind
I think it's your
Or possibly your attorney!

 

michaelton
February 2, 2009
There's no way that FZs music will survive without newer/andor/younger groups of musicians picking up on it.This requires the someetimes unpleasant truth that said musicians may also tend to bastardize arrangements from time to time.FZ certainly was guilty of that in a large way when interpreting with the music of others,so whats the big deal?

 

chuck shibley
May 28, 2009
People,get a life;frank was right,kids wouln't know music if it came up and bit them on their ass!Its his music,get over it.

 

Keef
August 30, 2009
I stopped buying anything to do with Zappa years ago because Gail's a bitch.

 

Joe
October 14, 2009
Dweezil's right. His mother IS a space cadet!

 

Mac
January 12, 2010
If Gail Zappa farts in the woods does it make a noise?

 

Mac
January 12, 2010
Hey, it's me again. Seriously, will the day come when we can no longer say "Frank Zappa" out loud? Will Gail start offering Frank's soiled underwear for sale on the ZFT website? Will Dweezil make more absurd and laughable comments about people "making a living off of songs that aren't theirs"? This stuuf reminds me of the story Wayne Kramer once told about his running into Rob Tyner in New York City in the early 1980s, and his asking Rob to come over and lay down some vocals for some new songs Wayne had written. Tyner apparently said something along the lines of "What do I get paid, motherfucker? After all, this is the 1980s, and I want my money."

I honestly don't believe that any of this is about "artistic purity" or any of that phony, grandiose garbage. This is, pure and simple, a control issue. I think the Zappa family is feeling a bit threatened by other people feeling that they Frank Zappa's music is "theirs", too. Face it: there ain't a Zappa left alive that has anything even close to Frank's amazing and incredible gift. So, I guess they're feeling that they'd better milk it for as long as they're able. The whole thing is pathetic, parasitic, and pathological, if you ask me, not to mention needlessly belligerent. Has anyone seen Dweezil's nasty and dismissive blog entry regarding Ray White's departure from ZPZ? Now, granted, Ray perhaps shouldn't have quite the way he did, and maybe it disrupted the group, but to dismiss him in a taunting blog post like that is sort of disrepctful, and only serves to illustrate just how nasty the Zappas can be. Ray was a longtime member of Frank's band, and bit of regret and sadness at his departure -- even if Ray mishandled the situation -- would been more fitting and decent. Dweezil seems to think Ray White is just an unnecessary piece of shit, and who cares if he leaves. It's really sad.

 

Roop298
February 17, 2010
This is all getting a bit out of proportion.
To be fair to Gail, surely she has to honour Frank's wishes and ensure that any presentations of the music follow the score as it was written?
Don't artists have to contact the copyright owner of a song before they can perform or record an arrangement of any song? So why is she/the ZFT wrong?
Isn't it simply more difficult with Zappa material because he wrote the lyrics as well as the music.
As to copyrighting a moustache: well that's just stoopid.

 

Andre Cholmondeley
August 11, 2010
Interesting dialog. Just to set the record straight, as it has countless other times by eyewitnesses & production people at the Ottawa Festival in question -- when I was removed from the MONITOR area (not sound booth), I was completely unaware of Dweezil's requests to "ban" me from the stage. So - any flare-ups on that evening were COMPLETELY unintentional and actually , quite blindsided me. My boss on that evening -- Adrian Belew -- has corroborated this on his blog. He had been told of this "Ban" but sadly, chose not to tell me. The rest of the evening lies at the feet of Dweezil's employees.

 

cupacabre
February 16, 2011
that's why music isn't worth to be paid for... money never gets to the people who deserve it...

 

Cletus
April 12, 2011
It's too bad DaWeasel and Gail have gone off the deep end. I know what Frank would have wanted... he even said so. Music is the BEST. Fuck the ZFT. Frank is rolling in his grave.

 

Scott
April 25, 2011
Seriously, Project/Object is SUCH a shitty program. They take TOTAL liberties with Frank's music and they ruin it. If it's too difficult to play they just don't play it. Plus, Andre is just a baby and a fucking hack. The next time they come to town I'm going to heckle them because I FEEL that they suck. Hey! That's my prerogative, right? Then I am going to start an internet campaign against P/O because MY OPINION matters more than the actual OWNERS of the music. Andre is a faggot.

 

Mike M.
April 25, 2011
"Andre is a faggot." -- are you in 7th grade? Tone down the douchebaggery.

 

Andre himself
April 25, 2011
Thanks for the feedback, Scott! As Mike says..gee, so productive to call me a British slang word for cigarette. But I digress. Look - I am the first to say -- I'm a hack, I'm the weakest link in my own band, LOL. But on a good day I can kick some ass. More importantly -- and I say this all the time -- we've spent nearly 20 years encouraging new people to listen to Zappa, that's the simple goal and no internet shut-in will change that. I have consistently PROMOTED Dweezil/ZPZ and their tours -- check the tapes, EVERY time they do something. I'm adult enough to separate Gail's and his animus for me -- from the bigger picture -- he is doing GREAT things for that common goal -- turning new people onto Zappa, and providing entertainment for existing fans. Having said that -- the "Andre is a baby" is always interesting. If you knew the true story of what I've put up with for over 15 yrs with Gail etc -- you'd know I have spoken about 1.0% of it. People have asked and asked for what happens, I try to provide my side and will ALWAYS be there to stand up to scrutiny and AS MANY questions as people want. I don't necessarily see that transparency offered on the other side. "Taking Liberties"?? again -- let's talk about it, pal. We do our level best to duplicate one version or another of FZ's music -- we don't always manage, but much of the time --we sound pretty good for having 5% or time or infrastructure of the budget of ZPZ. Are there bad nights out there on tape?? Of course. Am I at peace because there are ALSO killer nights out there? yes. You don't have to like my band - I really don't care one bit. Go see something else. "Owners Of the music"?? Read my post above about FRANK HIMSELF taking liberties (ahem) with everything from "Louie Louie" to Stravinsky to "Owner of a Lonely Heart", "Stairway", "Purple Haze"..you name it !!! So -- that's OK..? But NO ONE ELSE gets to do the same??? What about the "owners of that music". OK, man, have a great day, Let's discuss this over a beer sometime, my treat.

 

Brian
May 16, 2011
I work with teens and most know that I play bass in a band. We were talking about music one afternoon when FZ's name came up. Sadly, most of the kids had never heard of him. I know Gail thinks she's doing the right thing but she will kill Frank's music and his legacy.

 

Jonathan
July 17, 2011
I've known Andre since college days and have seen him with Project/Object many times over the years..Ike Willis has played with them and from my ears they do a great fucking job...Ike is an awesome lead guitarist and wish Frank would have let him play more lead while in the band...I have every Zappa record and live recording out there and have been listening to him for more than 30 years...Andre if you read this please let me know the next time you're playing in the NJ/NYC area...I'd love to check you guys out again...I"ve also heard Zappanale and it's incredible..It's arrogant to think that no one but a Zappa can play Zappa's music...In 75 years from now we'll all be dead and there will be a new...bold...breed of musicians listening to and playing Zappa's music...I listen to and welcome all interpretations of Zappa's music...peace out..J

 

R Howard
September 17, 2011
In the interest of pedantry, 'fag' is British slang for a cigarette; a 'faggot' is a kind of meatball.

 

Marcus
November 4, 2011
Thank you for doing what you're doing Andre. I have seen P/O every time they've played the Beachland & I will always remember something Napolean Murphy Brock said there: "If these guys weren't playing these gigs, I wouldn't be playing these gigs". That was way before ZPZ got their thing going. I have seen both ZPZ & P/O many times & what Bill C says is right on about the spontaneity of a P/O show ( the sheep thing at the last Beachland gig or the Blaggo night from a few years ago). Classic stuff & not so robotic, its freakin real like the old Zappa shows that I can only listen to on CD. I don't understand ZFT's problem with all this, in the end people are going to seek out the original stuff & P/O always promotes the new releases of Franks stuff. Keep on doin what you're doin Andre & THANK YOU
& faggot? seriously??? how the fuck old are you????

 

Glenn
December 7, 2011
I was introduced to FZ, and ultimately to his music, by way of the Bozzios, in the mid-'80s. FZ was a complicated man, his actions often contradicting professed philosophies or beliefs regarding his music, culture, etc. I have felt for some time that Gail does unnecessary damage to ZFT and to the family name simply because she won't tell it like it really is. On one hand, she is on the record stating that her ultimate goal with lawsuits, etc. is to protect the integrity of Frank's music (the note-for-note authenticity issue has been well discussed here by others)... And yet, she has also stated that she doesn't care who plays her late husband's music so long as they purchase a license to do so. And there you have it. Gail speaks from both sides of her mouth, when in fact she only need issue a statement: 'You want to play Frank's music? Fine. But you gotta pay. I have bills to pay, and mouths to feed.' By all accounts, Dweezil is a very nice man -- incredibly considerate and kind to fans, etc. -- an all around decent guy. So perhaps it is trite to point out that until ZPZ, Dweezil actually had little interest in his father's music, in spite of performing with Frank on occasion, since like many young musicians, Dweezil was much more interested in popular outfits like Van Halen, etc. (I am getting to a point here, in a moment) Dweezil's many attempts to work within the entertainment industry have met with dubious success to say the least. The few years as Ajax on 'Duckman' are in fact his greatest success. Guest VJ gigs; bit parts in film; a failed, one-season series with Moon; Z with Ahmet; a few solo LPs, a one-season 'variety' show with Ahmet, and so on -- none yielded great success, or cash enough to secure a solid future or direction. Dweezil had little choice but to return to his father's music if he were to secure that solid future for himself. The 20M Rykodisc paid for Frank's catalog, along with whatever else came to the family and the Trust by way of Frank's work, isn't, in the scheme of things, enough of a fortune to secure a family of five adults (with eventual grandchildren) forever. Dweezil is well known to hawk instruments on his own Web site, and he had no problem auctioning the Hendrix guitar his father gave him (and which he repaired) via Christie's of London. Just recently Dweezil sold several personal guitars to fans via his site, admitting to the urgent need to scrounge up cash in order to handle a protracted (and costly) divorce (his ex-wife is suing for spousal support)... And only recently has Ahmet stabilized himself as financially independent via his children's book and a hire at Disney. Diva recently lamented that she hopes she will soon find a job, so she can be independent of her mother (she's in her 30s!)... So, Dweezil bears down and bones up on his father music, and the best way to do that? Train yourself via a note-for-note approach. Dweezil is a fine technician, and certainly deserved his Grammy win for 'Peaches en Regalia,' but he isn't the virtuoso his father was. And that's okay. All well and good. ZPZ shows have been well received and well reviewed (and again, that Grammy). But for all that integrity showmanship, is ZPZ and Dweezil ensuring Frank's music will catch on with younger generations, far into the future? One cover band, no matter how tight and regardless of the lineage, can do that. And ZPZ, great as they are, are indeed a cover band. Dweezil's DNA has nothing to do with anything as Frank never allowed his children near his studio, let alone included them in the process of making music. Indeed, Dweezil recently stated that only now, during his recent European tour, is he seeing some younger faces in attendance. The shows mainly appeal to loyal, and aging, Zappa fans. And Dweezilla music camps? Time will tell, but they are expensive to attend... I encourage Gail to tell it like it is: "We're only in it for the money!" And that's just fucking fine, because nothing could be more in line with how Frank operated than that! Frank once told Dweezil: "Never make an ass out of yourself unless you're getting paid a lot of money." Frank was all too willing to throw artistic integrity out the window in order to score cash. He was a businessman, and once again, there's nothing wrong with that. He left a catalog of music the majority of which is brilliant. But Gail, and Dweezil, are creating their own conflict by pretending they wish to protect the authenticity of Frank's music. That is just not possible to do. No way. Zappa-themed shows, venues, festivals, etc., can only turn attention back to the man himself,and to new releases, and other Zappa-merch -- So what are the Zappas really losing? It's a trade off. Trade the demand for licensing fees for celebrations of the man and his music instead. Doing so just might, in the end, ensure Frank's legacy actually IS a legacy for future generations. Forgive me for rambling -- hope I made my point -- or something of a point... GB

 

anonymous
December 7, 2011
Correction: "Not one cover band, no matter how tight and regardless of the lineage, can do that.

 

Mike M.
December 9, 2011
Thanks, Glenn - great insight into the discussion.