blog: This Is What God Thinks
Song of the Day: Kaki King - "Life Being What It Is"
October 9, 2008
I'm really‚ really excited to see Kaki perform tonight in Burlington. I can't get enough of her latest album‚ Dreaming of Revenge. Kaki shines on this album‚ and another hero of mine‚ Malcolm Burn‚ produced it. Damn! What a winning combination. Great stuff. So‚ here's the song of the day (plus another song‚ "So Much For So Little," because I like all the material on this record so much that I couldn't decide. Fuck it… you should just really go and buy the album).
Kaki was the May/June 2008 State of Mind cover story. If you haven't read that yet‚ check it out here.
Visit Kaki King
McCain Using Artists' Songs Without Their Permission; Foo Fighters Not Havin' It
October 8, 2008
Just got this from the Foo Fighters' publicist (as if I needed another reason to not like McCain)...
Having received confirmed press reports that John McCain has been using Foo Fighters' "My Hero" as the latest in a number of unauthorized theme songs at his campaign rallies without seeking permission from the band‚ its management‚ record label or publisher‚ Foo Fighters have issued the following statement:
This isn't the first time the McCain campaign has used a song without making any attempt to get approval or permission from the artist. It's frustrating and infuriating that someone who claims to speak for the American people would repeatedly show such little respect for creativity and intellectual property. The saddest thing about this is that 'My Hero' was written as a celebration of the common man and his extraordinary potential. To have it appropriated without our knowledge and used in a manner that perverts the original sentiment of the lyric just tarnishes the song. We hope that the McCain campaign will do the right thing and stop using our song--and start asking artists' permission in general!
Song of the Day: Vetiver - "I Must Be In A Good Place Now"
October 8, 2008
This track, originally performed by Bobby Charles‚ closes Vetiver's fantastic recently released album of covers‚ Thing of the Past. Read the interview with Vetiver's Andy Cabic in the latest issue of State of Mind.
Visit Vetiver
If You Have To Ask... [The Interviews] Part 1: Reed Mathis
October 1, 2008
The term "jamband" has never sat well with me. I never think of my favorite bands as jambands‚ but most of the folks I meet who only know these artists by reputation describe them as such (and are often quick to write them off). In fact‚ when asked these days about my favorite music‚ I often say "jazz." The truth is‚ though‚ this genre tag is just as problematic.
Last fall‚ a conversation I had with Kevin Haas‚ brother of Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey keyboardist Brian Haas and the band's former manager‚ led to a series of interviews regarding these genre complications and culminated in the article If You Have to Ask…. You can purchase this issue of State of Mind here or read it in the digital issue (page 10).
I tried to talk to as many folks as I could find who had a hand in this burgeoning jazz scene‚ equally independent of the mainstream jazz and jam scenes. Much to my surprise‚ everyone was eager to hash out these issues. It seemed like this has been a concern of contemporary jazz figures for some time‚ so much so that the answers I received featured various and differing opinions. There was consensus that something's going on‚ but no one could quite pin it down. In the coming weeks‚ the transcripts from my conversations -- with Marco Benevento‚ David King‚ Steven Bernstein‚ Kevin Calabro of HYENA Records‚ and Andy Hurwitz of Ropeadope Records -- will be posted on the site.
On March 10th‚ I called bassist Reed Mathis in hopes of asking him the questions I'd had brewing. He was going to be available‚ I was told‚ for just a couple nights between the recording of a new Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey album and a European tour with Tea Leaf Green. After several rings‚ though‚ all I got was voice-mail. The next morning I received an apologetic email and an invitation to try the interview again that evening. When I called‚ Reed was back in Tulsa for one night before flying out to Amsterdam. His voice was ecstatic on the other end.
Reed Mathis by Zack Smith
ON GENRE DESIGNATIONS:
I've been working on this project that got started after a conversation I had with Kevin Haas. I've been trying to talk to as many people as I can about this scene that has been around for a pretty long time but is becoming increasingly hard to define. Kevin was telling me about his frustrations booking for you guys -- and the joys of course -- but it would invariably come around to the frustrations that he encountered. He knew that Jacob Fred was this incredible band but that there was no real model to follow in the way of booking and promotion. It got me thinking about all the other bands and projects in that niche between the jam world and the jazz world that may not be getting their proper due in either‚ but also do not necessarily fit in either. This is obviously nothing new for you guys‚ having done it for 15 years‚ but have you seen the music culture change in that time? Has it become at all easier?
Sure. When we started out‚ we thought of ourselves as a traditional jazz band even though we played funk with electric instruments. A couple years later we started hearing about Groove Collective and the Digable Planets‚ and so we were like‚ "Oh‚ we play acid jazz‚" because that was the term back then. Then we got booked to High Sierra in 2000 and suddenly we were a jamband.
Kevin Calabro [of HYENA Records] lamented the fact that you guys fall under that jam moniker because it often sells the musicianship short in a way.
It can.
Do you feel like it holds you back to be called a jamband?
It can. I see it both ways‚ though. If I'm looking through the local weekly to figure out which band to see tonight and there are two bands‚ one listed as a rock band‚ another as a jamband‚ I'd probably go see the rock band if I hadn't heard of either band.
It's weird because I don't even really know of any band that knowingly calls itself a jamband. It seems like it's a term applied to a band from outside of it.
I've heard tons of guys describe their bands as jambands.
Really?
Totally. And it always kind of makes you go‚ "Cool‚ he's‚ like‚ owning that shit."
It's definitely simple. For the sake of brevity‚ it's nice. I know a lot of bands that would rather hyphenate the shit out of their sound than call it jamband. You guys obviously come from a rich jazz tradition -- and I think there are a lot of bands out there that do‚ and are in their heart of hearts jazz musicians -- but I guess I'm really interested in how that scene links up with artists in the mainstream jazz scene.
There is some crossover‚ even at the A-level. People like Bill Frisell. And Brad Mehldau made that Largo record with Matt Chamberlain and all those guys from Sonic Youth‚ and that had some crossover. The Bad Plus has some crossover‚ for sure. From the other direction‚ too; I just got word that the Marco Benevento Trio with me and Matt Chamberlain is going to be the rhythm section for Chris Potter at the Newport Jazz Festival. That's a very interesting development because it's the same thing from the other side -- the mainstream‚ accepted jazz star is going to get a rhythm section from the jamband world. I applaud that‚ whoever's decision that was. This should happen. You know‚ Dave Holland should be hiring Brian Haas.
It seems like Kevin Calabro and Andy Hurwitz [of Ropeadope Records] have been running into these same issues‚ because they're champions of these acts that don't have a ready market‚ and so it's almost as big of a headache for them to figure out what to do with this thing in the world of music at large‚ where it's all square pegs and round holes.
Yeah. Brian and I have asked ourselves that question every day for 15 years. "OK‚ we know this shit's cool‚ but what do we do with it?" We just continue to believe in it‚ be real‚ continue to be sensitive to the changing environment‚ and respond accordingly.
Can this conflict also be a catalyst for more creative music‚ to not be pinned down by expectations?
Totally. It's happened lots of times. Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie stopped playing in big bands and started playing with five dudes‚ there was a lot of talk. When Chuck Berry plugged in his guitar‚ people were saying it wasn't blues‚ but it was. What Bird was playing was jazz. Same thing with Ornette [Coleman] and [Thelonious] Monk. Or with Bitch's Brew. It's a part of the cycle of creativity. There's uncertainty but that's a necessary step in the creative process. I am glad that I'm on the playing end of the equation‚ though‚ and not the marketing end.
ON JAZZ
It seems like such a tired question‚ the "what is jazz?" question‚ but every few years it becomes relevant again when jazz picks up a couple new elements and the whole music world shifts. There are all these creative jazz musicians who are soaking it all in. For you‚ what does it all come back to?
As for the question of what jazz is‚ the clearest answer I got was when I read a book about the history of New Orleans music and it talked about the world of music in the 20 years before jazz. New Orleans had‚ like‚ 80 opera houses. The fancy ones‚ for whitey‚ had a full orchestra‚ and the ones for poor black people had a pianist. One pianist. Usually the pianist's other gig was at a brothel. So these guys would go play Verdi in the evening and then stride piano at midnight in the brothel. Then pianists and brass bands hooked up almost by accident‚ like peanut butter and chocolate. Then the drummers showed up‚ too. Crazy. That kind of chaos stems from a total accident in culture. Nobody proposed that they should put those elements together. That's what jazz is: any combination culture creates‚ of its own accord. Nobody chooses it‚ like‚ "you know what would be cool -- if Bird and Diz started playing weird notes with five dudes." It just happens.
That's my sense‚ too‚ that jazz is kind of a catch-all name for something that isn't so much a style as it is an approach.
Exactly.
An approach that you can lend to almost any style of music. Kevin [Calabro] kept talking about trying to turn on the indie rock world to stuff like Invisible Baby because it has this really accessible‚ catchy‚ kitschy quality -- the tune "Atari" comes to mind -- and I'm hearing the indie rock‚ but underneath it all‚ it all boils down to jazz for me. You can give an indie rock band that tune but they're not going to play it the same way that you guys do.
Right. The vernacular comes and goes‚ but the approach is the vibe. The problem with so-called mainstream jazz is that it's a costume. For a lot of guys‚ it's just a costume they put on‚ as easy as they can put on a blues costume‚ or rock‚ or jamband. That's what's wrong with it‚ though.
You've got to speak in your real voice. Everyone's had a friend who‚ over the years‚ is kind of acting and won't get off it‚ or‚ like‚ acts weird around girls -- that's what those jazz musicians are like‚ or any musicians who have a self-image problem. I think you should just play whatever you are. Marco's got a lot of indie rock in him. He is that‚ but he uses the jazz equation and speaks its native tongue. And that's jazz. If it's Victor Wooten playing slap bass‚ then that's his native tongue. If it's Skerik playing saxophone through eight distortion pedals and a Marshall stack‚ then that's his native tongue.
Marco Benevento - "Atari"
ON AGE AND LINEAGE:
One of my favorite stories Kevin Haas told me was about a Northeast tour you were doing a couple years back. One night you were opening for Al di Meola and the next for Sound Tribe Sector 9. It was both ends of the spectrum distilled. And somehow you guys were able to move between them‚ still speaking that common tongue.
Man‚ I'd see Sound Tribe any day of the week over di Meola. That show was so square. Oh my God. If that's getting old‚ I don't know if I want to. Holy shit. It was actually my thirtieth birthday‚ too.
Oh‚ no. Well‚ thanks for all this. I really feel like you're hitting the nail on the head here. This is all the stuff I've been trying to bounce off of people.
It's an important conversation‚ I think. A lot of people are asking these questions right now. The industry's in serious flux for the first time in a long time‚ and the music is mutating as usual. Almost all my friends talk about this shit every day with one another.
Yeah. It's one thing for people to talk about it and another for someone to speak to it from the inside. I'm getting a sense that people are feeling this change and people are sensing this new scene developing without knowing how to approach it or what to call it. And it's really exciting‚ honestly.
And it's a generational thing‚ too. When people start growing up and the fans get older as the players get older‚ the context definitely changes. Bob Dylan!? You could get grounded for having a Bob Dylan record at my mom's house‚ and now he's establishment. That's part of what we're seeing with the jazz-jam or the jam-jazz scene starting to blend. Guys like Marco are starting to get older‚ and people take you seriously when you get older -- and you become a better player.
And‚ it seems like you start to enlist the support of people who came before you. I love to see Steven Bernstein playing with you guys‚ or Bobby Previte‚ guys who might be a little older but who are that much more in touch with heritage and are kind of acting as a conduit to connect the younger guys to that tradition.
I'd be nothing without the musicians who are twice my age who I've been lucky enough to play with. The nonverbal information that's conveyed when you play with Johnny Vidacovich or Steve Kimock‚ or any of these guys who were my age in the '70s. There's no substitute. You've got to stand there with them. It's amazing.
How about Josh Raymer [drummer of Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey]? He's a few years younger than you guys. Is this a new wave coming up from below?
Yeah‚ dude. Raymer is a part of a wave of musicians coming up in Tulsa who remind me of Brian and I when we were starting out. They're all 20‚ 21‚ and feisty as hell. There's a jam every Monday‚ Tuesday and Thursday at coffee shops and jazz clubs that these guys all go to. Raymer was the shining jewel of that scene.
When Brian and I took some time off last year‚ we hosted the Tuesday night jam for a few months. We were the rhythm section for whoever wanted to come up. Since Jason Smart [prior JFJO drummer] doesn't live in Tulsa‚ it was an open drum chair‚ but Brian and I could hardly hang with Raymer. He actually made us sit back on our instruments and give him a little room. He was so powerful. Just blazing. Brian and I had to play half as much stuff to get the jam cooking as a result. I'm used to having to really dig in to get the thing cooking‚ and the same is true for Brian. As soon as Raymer stepped up there‚ though‚ we didn't have to jump the car anymore. It just started right up. And plus‚ he's a hell of a guy. He's all over Lil' Tae.
Yeah. It's so driving. And it's cool to hear him sliced up the way that Tae [Meyulks] did it.
Yeah. Meyulks is a great editor. He knows what to choose and what to discard. A band like Jacob Fred needs a good editor sometimes‚ somebody with a subtraction wand.
ON THE BASS
It's funny because -- going back to your bass playing -- I have been noticing the subtraction wand. I don't know if it comes from playing with a diversity of acts‚ but you're obviously not jump-starting the car anymore. Having seen you with Marco a bunch lately‚ you seem to stay so reserved and supportive‚ which was a surprise to me. It's far more minimalistic but still really cool.
Yeah. The role I play in Jacob Fred wasn't anything I ever really chose -- the lead bass thing. We were an octet for six years and there were so many soloists that‚ when we became a trio‚ it was just Brian. So‚ we had to figure out some way for me to solo and still have the whole band playing. Brian hit on the idea of playing bass lines with his left hand‚ like a B3 player‚ and that let me go off. But I was never like‚ "I want to have an octave pedal and play lots of solos!" It was more of a functional role. Somebody needed to solo and we needed a soprano voice. That's how the octave pedal thing started.
I do love doing that‚ and I get a lot of joy playing that sound‚ but it's not like I go to play with other guys and say‚ "Here's the deal: I have an octave pedal and I'm going to play a lot of solos." That's what Jacob Fred needs. It's not what Reed necessarily needs. When I'm in other settings‚ I do what that setting needs. In the Duo‚ Marco's the bass player‚ so I feel like his paradigm for the relationship between keyboard and bass is relative to his two hands. When I play with Marco‚ I need to be his left hand and not much more than that. Then he can go off with his right hand.
It has very evident‚ liberating effects on his playing.
Exactly. The farther he improvises‚ the more I stick to the bass register. It really does amazing shit for him. On that tour we did a couple weeks ago‚ I'd never heard him play like that. After the Woodstock show we came off the stage and Andrew Barr and I both simultaneously said‚ "Marco‚ that's the best piano I've ever heard you play." We were wide-eyed. He is definitely finding a part of himself that he's glad to find.
I think your playing has the same effect on Andrew‚ too. Between the show in NYC and Troy‚ he was playing on a whole new level‚ just having become accustomed to having you behind him. He could stretch out a lot more‚ it seemed.
Maybe the best thing that's come from my use of the octave pedal‚ taking on the role of a soloist‚ is that I've learned what it feels like to wish the bass was doing something else. Brian's an incredible bass player with his left hand‚ but I know what it feels like to think‚ "I wish the fucking bass player would just sit still. I wish he would stay in the lower register. Why's he always got to go play that high shit?"
I now have the opportunity in Marco's band or in Tea Leaf Green to be what I wish the bass player would be‚ and that's something I probably wouldn't have learned without taking on the role of a soloist. I almost think everybody should play bass‚ and every bass player should play a lead instrument. If you're a bassist‚ you need to know what it feels like to need one‚ and vice versa. I'm one of the rare few that gets to know both ends.
Read If You Have to Ask‚ starting on page 10 in Issue 28 of State of Mind here‚ or buy a copy here.
Visit Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey
Phish Reunites
October 1, 2008
PHISH HAMPTON 2009 from Phish on Vimeo.
See you in Virginia.
Song of the Day: Kaki King - "Life Being What It Is"October 9, 2008
Kaki was the May/June 2008 State of Mind cover story. If you haven't read that yet‚ check it out here.
Visit Kaki King
McCain Using Artists' Songs Without Their Permission; Foo Fighters Not Havin' ItOctober 8, 2008
Having received confirmed press reports that John McCain has been using Foo Fighters' "My Hero" as the latest in a number of unauthorized theme songs at his campaign rallies without seeking permission from the band‚ its management‚ record label or publisher‚ Foo Fighters have issued the following statement:
This isn't the first time the McCain campaign has used a song without making any attempt to get approval or permission from the artist. It's frustrating and infuriating that someone who claims to speak for the American people would repeatedly show such little respect for creativity and intellectual property. The saddest thing about this is that 'My Hero' was written as a celebration of the common man and his extraordinary potential. To have it appropriated without our knowledge and used in a manner that perverts the original sentiment of the lyric just tarnishes the song. We hope that the McCain campaign will do the right thing and stop using our song--and start asking artists' permission in general!
Song of the Day: Vetiver - "I Must Be In A Good Place Now"October 8, 2008
Visit Vetiver
If You Have To Ask... [The Interviews] Part 1: Reed MathisOctober 1, 2008
Last fall‚ a conversation I had with Kevin Haas‚ brother of Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey keyboardist Brian Haas and the band's former manager‚ led to a series of interviews regarding these genre complications and culminated in the article If You Have to Ask…. You can purchase this issue of State of Mind here or read it in the digital issue (page 10).
I tried to talk to as many folks as I could find who had a hand in this burgeoning jazz scene‚ equally independent of the mainstream jazz and jam scenes. Much to my surprise‚ everyone was eager to hash out these issues. It seemed like this has been a concern of contemporary jazz figures for some time‚ so much so that the answers I received featured various and differing opinions. There was consensus that something's going on‚ but no one could quite pin it down. In the coming weeks‚ the transcripts from my conversations -- with Marco Benevento‚ David King‚ Steven Bernstein‚ Kevin Calabro of HYENA Records‚ and Andy Hurwitz of Ropeadope Records -- will be posted on the site.
On March 10th‚ I called bassist Reed Mathis in hopes of asking him the questions I'd had brewing. He was going to be available‚ I was told‚ for just a couple nights between the recording of a new Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey album and a European tour with Tea Leaf Green. After several rings‚ though‚ all I got was voice-mail. The next morning I received an apologetic email and an invitation to try the interview again that evening. When I called‚ Reed was back in Tulsa for one night before flying out to Amsterdam. His voice was ecstatic on the other end.
Reed Mathis by Zack Smith
ON GENRE DESIGNATIONS:
I've been working on this project that got started after a conversation I had with Kevin Haas. I've been trying to talk to as many people as I can about this scene that has been around for a pretty long time but is becoming increasingly hard to define. Kevin was telling me about his frustrations booking for you guys -- and the joys of course -- but it would invariably come around to the frustrations that he encountered. He knew that Jacob Fred was this incredible band but that there was no real model to follow in the way of booking and promotion. It got me thinking about all the other bands and projects in that niche between the jam world and the jazz world that may not be getting their proper due in either‚ but also do not necessarily fit in either. This is obviously nothing new for you guys‚ having done it for 15 years‚ but have you seen the music culture change in that time? Has it become at all easier?
Sure. When we started out‚ we thought of ourselves as a traditional jazz band even though we played funk with electric instruments. A couple years later we started hearing about Groove Collective and the Digable Planets‚ and so we were like‚ "Oh‚ we play acid jazz‚" because that was the term back then. Then we got booked to High Sierra in 2000 and suddenly we were a jamband.
Kevin Calabro [of HYENA Records] lamented the fact that you guys fall under that jam moniker because it often sells the musicianship short in a way.
It can.
Do you feel like it holds you back to be called a jamband?
It can. I see it both ways‚ though. If I'm looking through the local weekly to figure out which band to see tonight and there are two bands‚ one listed as a rock band‚ another as a jamband‚ I'd probably go see the rock band if I hadn't heard of either band.
It's weird because I don't even really know of any band that knowingly calls itself a jamband. It seems like it's a term applied to a band from outside of it.
I've heard tons of guys describe their bands as jambands.
Really?
Totally. And it always kind of makes you go‚ "Cool‚ he's‚ like‚ owning that shit."
It's definitely simple. For the sake of brevity‚ it's nice. I know a lot of bands that would rather hyphenate the shit out of their sound than call it jamband. You guys obviously come from a rich jazz tradition -- and I think there are a lot of bands out there that do‚ and are in their heart of hearts jazz musicians -- but I guess I'm really interested in how that scene links up with artists in the mainstream jazz scene.
There is some crossover‚ even at the A-level. People like Bill Frisell. And Brad Mehldau made that Largo record with Matt Chamberlain and all those guys from Sonic Youth‚ and that had some crossover. The Bad Plus has some crossover‚ for sure. From the other direction‚ too; I just got word that the Marco Benevento Trio with me and Matt Chamberlain is going to be the rhythm section for Chris Potter at the Newport Jazz Festival. That's a very interesting development because it's the same thing from the other side -- the mainstream‚ accepted jazz star is going to get a rhythm section from the jamband world. I applaud that‚ whoever's decision that was. This should happen. You know‚ Dave Holland should be hiring Brian Haas.
It seems like Kevin Calabro and Andy Hurwitz [of Ropeadope Records] have been running into these same issues‚ because they're champions of these acts that don't have a ready market‚ and so it's almost as big of a headache for them to figure out what to do with this thing in the world of music at large‚ where it's all square pegs and round holes.
Yeah. Brian and I have asked ourselves that question every day for 15 years. "OK‚ we know this shit's cool‚ but what do we do with it?" We just continue to believe in it‚ be real‚ continue to be sensitive to the changing environment‚ and respond accordingly.
Can this conflict also be a catalyst for more creative music‚ to not be pinned down by expectations?
Totally. It's happened lots of times. Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie stopped playing in big bands and started playing with five dudes‚ there was a lot of talk. When Chuck Berry plugged in his guitar‚ people were saying it wasn't blues‚ but it was. What Bird was playing was jazz. Same thing with Ornette [Coleman] and [Thelonious] Monk. Or with Bitch's Brew. It's a part of the cycle of creativity. There's uncertainty but that's a necessary step in the creative process. I am glad that I'm on the playing end of the equation‚ though‚ and not the marketing end.
ON JAZZ
It seems like such a tired question‚ the "what is jazz?" question‚ but every few years it becomes relevant again when jazz picks up a couple new elements and the whole music world shifts. There are all these creative jazz musicians who are soaking it all in. For you‚ what does it all come back to?
As for the question of what jazz is‚ the clearest answer I got was when I read a book about the history of New Orleans music and it talked about the world of music in the 20 years before jazz. New Orleans had‚ like‚ 80 opera houses. The fancy ones‚ for whitey‚ had a full orchestra‚ and the ones for poor black people had a pianist. One pianist. Usually the pianist's other gig was at a brothel. So these guys would go play Verdi in the evening and then stride piano at midnight in the brothel. Then pianists and brass bands hooked up almost by accident‚ like peanut butter and chocolate. Then the drummers showed up‚ too. Crazy. That kind of chaos stems from a total accident in culture. Nobody proposed that they should put those elements together. That's what jazz is: any combination culture creates‚ of its own accord. Nobody chooses it‚ like‚ "you know what would be cool -- if Bird and Diz started playing weird notes with five dudes." It just happens.
That's my sense‚ too‚ that jazz is kind of a catch-all name for something that isn't so much a style as it is an approach.
Exactly.
An approach that you can lend to almost any style of music. Kevin [Calabro] kept talking about trying to turn on the indie rock world to stuff like Invisible Baby because it has this really accessible‚ catchy‚ kitschy quality -- the tune "Atari" comes to mind -- and I'm hearing the indie rock‚ but underneath it all‚ it all boils down to jazz for me. You can give an indie rock band that tune but they're not going to play it the same way that you guys do.
Right. The vernacular comes and goes‚ but the approach is the vibe. The problem with so-called mainstream jazz is that it's a costume. For a lot of guys‚ it's just a costume they put on‚ as easy as they can put on a blues costume‚ or rock‚ or jamband. That's what's wrong with it‚ though.
You've got to speak in your real voice. Everyone's had a friend who‚ over the years‚ is kind of acting and won't get off it‚ or‚ like‚ acts weird around girls -- that's what those jazz musicians are like‚ or any musicians who have a self-image problem. I think you should just play whatever you are. Marco's got a lot of indie rock in him. He is that‚ but he uses the jazz equation and speaks its native tongue. And that's jazz. If it's Victor Wooten playing slap bass‚ then that's his native tongue. If it's Skerik playing saxophone through eight distortion pedals and a Marshall stack‚ then that's his native tongue.
Marco Benevento - "Atari"
ON AGE AND LINEAGE:
One of my favorite stories Kevin Haas told me was about a Northeast tour you were doing a couple years back. One night you were opening for Al di Meola and the next for Sound Tribe Sector 9. It was both ends of the spectrum distilled. And somehow you guys were able to move between them‚ still speaking that common tongue.
Man‚ I'd see Sound Tribe any day of the week over di Meola. That show was so square. Oh my God. If that's getting old‚ I don't know if I want to. Holy shit. It was actually my thirtieth birthday‚ too.
Oh‚ no. Well‚ thanks for all this. I really feel like you're hitting the nail on the head here. This is all the stuff I've been trying to bounce off of people.
It's an important conversation‚ I think. A lot of people are asking these questions right now. The industry's in serious flux for the first time in a long time‚ and the music is mutating as usual. Almost all my friends talk about this shit every day with one another.
Yeah. It's one thing for people to talk about it and another for someone to speak to it from the inside. I'm getting a sense that people are feeling this change and people are sensing this new scene developing without knowing how to approach it or what to call it. And it's really exciting‚ honestly.
And it's a generational thing‚ too. When people start growing up and the fans get older as the players get older‚ the context definitely changes. Bob Dylan!? You could get grounded for having a Bob Dylan record at my mom's house‚ and now he's establishment. That's part of what we're seeing with the jazz-jam or the jam-jazz scene starting to blend. Guys like Marco are starting to get older‚ and people take you seriously when you get older -- and you become a better player.
And‚ it seems like you start to enlist the support of people who came before you. I love to see Steven Bernstein playing with you guys‚ or Bobby Previte‚ guys who might be a little older but who are that much more in touch with heritage and are kind of acting as a conduit to connect the younger guys to that tradition.
I'd be nothing without the musicians who are twice my age who I've been lucky enough to play with. The nonverbal information that's conveyed when you play with Johnny Vidacovich or Steve Kimock‚ or any of these guys who were my age in the '70s. There's no substitute. You've got to stand there with them. It's amazing.
How about Josh Raymer [drummer of Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey]? He's a few years younger than you guys. Is this a new wave coming up from below?
Yeah‚ dude. Raymer is a part of a wave of musicians coming up in Tulsa who remind me of Brian and I when we were starting out. They're all 20‚ 21‚ and feisty as hell. There's a jam every Monday‚ Tuesday and Thursday at coffee shops and jazz clubs that these guys all go to. Raymer was the shining jewel of that scene.
When Brian and I took some time off last year‚ we hosted the Tuesday night jam for a few months. We were the rhythm section for whoever wanted to come up. Since Jason Smart [prior JFJO drummer] doesn't live in Tulsa‚ it was an open drum chair‚ but Brian and I could hardly hang with Raymer. He actually made us sit back on our instruments and give him a little room. He was so powerful. Just blazing. Brian and I had to play half as much stuff to get the jam cooking as a result. I'm used to having to really dig in to get the thing cooking‚ and the same is true for Brian. As soon as Raymer stepped up there‚ though‚ we didn't have to jump the car anymore. It just started right up. And plus‚ he's a hell of a guy. He's all over Lil' Tae.
Yeah. It's so driving. And it's cool to hear him sliced up the way that Tae [Meyulks] did it.
Yeah. Meyulks is a great editor. He knows what to choose and what to discard. A band like Jacob Fred needs a good editor sometimes‚ somebody with a subtraction wand.
ON THE BASS
It's funny because -- going back to your bass playing -- I have been noticing the subtraction wand. I don't know if it comes from playing with a diversity of acts‚ but you're obviously not jump-starting the car anymore. Having seen you with Marco a bunch lately‚ you seem to stay so reserved and supportive‚ which was a surprise to me. It's far more minimalistic but still really cool.
Yeah. The role I play in Jacob Fred wasn't anything I ever really chose -- the lead bass thing. We were an octet for six years and there were so many soloists that‚ when we became a trio‚ it was just Brian. So‚ we had to figure out some way for me to solo and still have the whole band playing. Brian hit on the idea of playing bass lines with his left hand‚ like a B3 player‚ and that let me go off. But I was never like‚ "I want to have an octave pedal and play lots of solos!" It was more of a functional role. Somebody needed to solo and we needed a soprano voice. That's how the octave pedal thing started.
I do love doing that‚ and I get a lot of joy playing that sound‚ but it's not like I go to play with other guys and say‚ "Here's the deal: I have an octave pedal and I'm going to play a lot of solos." That's what Jacob Fred needs. It's not what Reed necessarily needs. When I'm in other settings‚ I do what that setting needs. In the Duo‚ Marco's the bass player‚ so I feel like his paradigm for the relationship between keyboard and bass is relative to his two hands. When I play with Marco‚ I need to be his left hand and not much more than that. Then he can go off with his right hand.
It has very evident‚ liberating effects on his playing.
Exactly. The farther he improvises‚ the more I stick to the bass register. It really does amazing shit for him. On that tour we did a couple weeks ago‚ I'd never heard him play like that. After the Woodstock show we came off the stage and Andrew Barr and I both simultaneously said‚ "Marco‚ that's the best piano I've ever heard you play." We were wide-eyed. He is definitely finding a part of himself that he's glad to find.
I think your playing has the same effect on Andrew‚ too. Between the show in NYC and Troy‚ he was playing on a whole new level‚ just having become accustomed to having you behind him. He could stretch out a lot more‚ it seemed.
Maybe the best thing that's come from my use of the octave pedal‚ taking on the role of a soloist‚ is that I've learned what it feels like to wish the bass was doing something else. Brian's an incredible bass player with his left hand‚ but I know what it feels like to think‚ "I wish the fucking bass player would just sit still. I wish he would stay in the lower register. Why's he always got to go play that high shit?"
I now have the opportunity in Marco's band or in Tea Leaf Green to be what I wish the bass player would be‚ and that's something I probably wouldn't have learned without taking on the role of a soloist. I almost think everybody should play bass‚ and every bass player should play a lead instrument. If you're a bassist‚ you need to know what it feels like to need one‚ and vice versa. I'm one of the rare few that gets to know both ends.
Read If You Have to Ask‚ starting on page 10 in Issue 28 of State of Mind here‚ or buy a copy here.
Visit Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey
Phish Reunites October 1, 2008
PHISH HAMPTON 2009 from Phish on Vimeo.
See you in Virginia.
new to state of mind
Shows: moe.
Shows: Yonder Mountain String Band
Shows: Grand Point North 2014
Shows: Catskill Chill 2014
Shows: moe.down 15
Shows: Gov't Mule
Shows: Umphrey's McGee
Shows: Newport Folk Festival 2014
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Albums: Phish - Fuego
Shows: moe.
Shows: Yonder Mountain String Band
Shows: Grand Point North 2014
Shows: Catskill Chill 2014
Shows: moe.down 15
Shows: Gov't Mule
Shows: Umphrey's McGee
Shows: Newport Folk Festival 2014
Shows: Widespread Panic
Albums: Phish - Fuego
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